You should have told that guy about the sunk cost fallacy, he would have bailed out sooner.

[helpful]
Buying tickets isn't a perfect solution either; they could be re-sold to other commuters. Whereas if you offer to buy someone a meal, you either see them eat it or else can count on people not buying random sandwiches from strangers.
[/helpful]

About 1 time in 10 that I'm asked for money by someone with a good story I give it to them. Because I figure that if your life is so bad that you make money by standing in the cold lying to people then you probably need the cash more than I do.

Mostly I give money to a couple of charities so that I feel better about saying No to the majority of people who ask for it.

I would argue that by supporting that lifestyle you could be making their lives even more miserable.

I have almost the same problem. I'm far to willing to dismiss people as stupid, but pathologically unable to believe they might lie to me.

I don't give money to strangers because my social anxiety is so severe that people approaching me causes me objective harm, and I have no interest in rewarding that.

You should take an interview and interrogation class. Never get (successfully) lied to again!

By your own principle, I assume that you're a shill for the company you linked, that I will pay them money to sign up for their class and then never hear from them again, and that you will get part of the profits.

Ha! :)

I'm a detective. I get lied to for a living. But in my state, we are not allowed to lie to our suspects. Go figure.

I assume you have some version of confidentiality that prevents you from telling all of your probably really interesting detective stories?

I post the ones I can - anything in a public hearing or public documents (like facts in an affidavit of probable cause or search warrant) is fine to share. If you look at my LJ, check the "blotter" and "le" tags respectively.

The reason I stumbled across you was a post you did on your experiences with patients. And then I stuck around after the pickup artist posts.

For what it's worth, he sounds like a scammer to me. He's so plausible because he's practiced a lot, and while he's walking around looking for marks he has plenty of time to consider what-if scenarios.

It has nothing to do with poverty, it has to do with having lost your wallet, or had your car towed unexpectedly, or so on. This is a desperate and unpleasant situation (I know because I've been in it) and I can spare $5 or $10 easily.

A world in which everyone helps everyone else out in these situations is much better than a world in which no one helps anyone. The existence of scammers is a complicating factor, but if we could avoid it I would much prefer the everyone-helps equilibrium even for selfish reasons.

The everyone-helps equilibrium is an unstable fixed point, leading to an inevitable catastrophe.

I think the LW argument on charity is extremely bad, ignoring problems of stability and convexity.

I would wager if you are being scammed with that frequency you could easily be doing more to look less like a good mark. Not sure it's worth it to you even so, but it does mitigate the dilemma.

For what it's worth, I'd expect a scammer to have better knowledge of the airport transport system than someone that usually drives.

And if he was so horrified by the idea you might miss your flight, there's no way he would've gone to the toilet. Regardless of his motives (maybe he was just too embarrassed), he'd bailed.

And if he was so horrified by the idea you might miss your flight, there's no way he would've gone to the toilet. Regardless of his motives (maybe he was just too embarrassed), he'd bailed.

This sounds right to me. Also, a scammer would likely have a good knowledge of the airport layout/rail station etc., to be convincing.

Not to be indelicate, but sometimes it's go or burst.

But... if I can also be Captain Obvious, it seems to me that if I were doing this scam efficiently (ie, appearing to be a respectable middle-class person, etc), this situation is exactly what I'd set up - I'd find the maximally awkward train fare in the local area, and have this entire setup as a defense against the "just let me pay for you" situation. The only thing that makes me think it _might_ be bona-fide is I'd tend to bail and vanish to the loo earlier, as soon as it became clear the mark was completely determined to pay on the train or not at all.

I was hoping this story would end with an apology card showing up in your mail, but I suppose it might be too early to know.

Reminds me of this:

http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/faith-restored

Random thoughts in no consecutive order:

(1) I hate those bloody questions. Along with the "Where do you see yourself in five years?", it's - gah. The kinds of employment guidance I got on courses tend to the "For the love of cats, don't answer this one truthfully. Don't say you find it hard to get up in the morning, or you are impatient. Find an answer that sounds as if you are treating it as a weakness but is really a strength: you like to take on responsibility or some crap like that."

(2) I've never been approached by a beggar with a story like that, and I wonder if it has to do with anti-begging laws (if he straight out asks for money, the cops can arrest him, but if he asks for help to buy a ticket, that's not begging)? My reaction generally is, if they're begging, and I have it to spare, sure, give it. It's not up to me to decide what they should spend it on, or the rest of it. Give or don't give, but it's up to you.

(3) You gave a stranger your address???? That, to me, is a lot worse than the possibility of being scammed. If he was some kind of con-artist or the likes, you have just given the burglars a handy target.

(4) Don't feel guilty. I think this guy was probably trying to pull a fast one; why change the story from 'I need a ticket' to 'Actually, I need two tickets'? And I say this as someone who legitimately has had to borrow bus fare before.

(5) Glad you got back safe and sound and not robbed!

Well, the address is about a thousand miles away, and two other people live there, so I think I'm safe. Still wish I hadn't done that, though.

Linked to you, here: http://atreic.livejournal.com/483993.html

I don't think I was exactly playing "I'm too honest" - that would have sounded hokey. "I'm too willing to trust others" is at least a little different and a real flaw.

I like it, new don't up sell me rule has taken effect!!

I've been playing the game of "I won't give you money but I will buy you food/train tickets/whatever" for a great many years and could bore you rigid with it, but here are a few highlights.

Central Liverpool, 1980s - offered to buy him food, he agreed. We then walked round a lot of the central district looking for a place - have you any idea how few places there sold ready-to-eat food? Eventually we ended up in an upmarket department store, where the store detective took an instant interest in us and followed us till we scarpered with a few sandwiches. I left him (the hobo, not the detective) on a bench outside to eat them, and walked right round the block to check on him. Yes, he was still there, eating slowly.

Birmingham, 1980s - wanted a train ticket to Coventry. I bought one and saw him through the barrier with it. If a Birmingham scammer, later that evening became a Coventry scammer. If not, got home safely.

London, 2000s - wanted food. Took to McDonalds, had a full meal. I learned more about youth self-harming than ever before.

London, 2000s - apparently wanted food. I offered to take him and buy it. He walked a short distance with me, told me that he didn't want to be any trouble. I said it was no trouble, he said it would be easier for me just to give him money - gave up after a few minutes because he didn't want to inconvenience me - or else because he knew I wasn't ever going to give money.

Chester, 2000s - she wanted £1 towards ticket to Manchester. I offered to buy the whole ticket. Well, there are two of us. No problem, I'll buy two tickets. But train doesn't go for a while yet. No problem, if I buy them now, you can use them on the next train. I think she really did want to go. Her friend seemed to think there was a problem: just give us the money. No, I'm only buying tickets. Her friend wouldn't let me. I went off. Then, a minute or two later, I returned. "If you really did want to go to Warrington, tell your friend she's a prat." As I left, it was just kicking off.

Manchester, 2000s - he wanted a ticket to somewhere or other, I bought it for him, he seemed happy. Not very interesting story!

And so on.

I don't think he was on the level. And I think that 'protecting poor people from the embarrassment of having to jump through a bunch of humiliating hoops when they need money' is important, but doesn't apply to someone who's claiming not to be systematically poor, but to be in a momentary tight fix due to, let's face it, their own stupidity. I understand stupidity, but if I'm dumb enough to go out without any means of payment, I expect a certain amount of humiliation when attempting to purchase goods and services. (If you get your wallet stolen, don't the police help you get home?)

I'm wondering about 'hey, sure I'll lend you $30 - if you have some collateral? Watches, jewellry, handbag?' for next time someone tries the middle-class scam. OK, so it sounds like I am taking advantage, but thing is I *would* give back the item in exchange for repayment (I certainly don't want it), and if I was in that situation I'd be grateful to be rescued and have every intention of paying back. And I would prefer to look harsh than support a scammer.

I say this in the knowledge that a) I can't locate the exact address of the lady I helped (although the postcode is indeed Strasbourg and it's certainly a plausible address for a small alley that might not be on Google Maps) and b) she has not made contact or answered my email, which would be a top priority for me. Haven't looked into the car registration yet.

I suspect there are a proportion of middle-class scammers out there who don't hit the same location often, but when they have some time, prefer to get something for nothing. Or, in your case, are just systematically trying to make $20 an hour.

Scott, you got me to eagerly read your whole post on what is an objectively uneventful story. Let's get your blog to become even more popular to increase the chance this guy reads it and admits he's a scammer, or says, "I am not a scammer, I am a real person!"

Were you thinking of following him into the bathroom?

I tend to think this problem will eventually be solved using technology. Either bc his friends can instantly send him money or have his ticket waiting for him, or you'll be able to use your phone to vouch his identity.

I got suckered by a pair of scammers myself... They pretended to buy a ticket while I watched.

You can tell him "I have to make sure you're on the level. There are a lot of scammers out there, you know," as you go with him to show that this is not a rejection.

Then, strike up a conversation, bringing up the usual small-talk topics, that a scammer would find hard to forge: His name, profession, employer, etc. If you have a smartphone, Google his identity.

Offer to call his family: "Just so they don't worry." A scammer would be unlikely to have a confederate ready.

Edited at 2012-11-18 09:57 am (UTC)

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