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Cool review. I'd forgotten the personality stuff was one of my counter-examples to "progress only happens when old scientists die off."
* geology: "Continental drift is crazy!" *seafloor spreading data* "Continental drift is real! Let's figure out how."
* astronomy: "Is the universe expanding asymptotically forever, or eventually collapsing into a big crunch?" "Accelerating." "What? That's nuts. Try again." "Accelerating." "...f-ck."
* psychology: "Parents!" "Genes!" "Parents!" "Genes!" "Half genes, half non-parental stuff!" "...what." "...what."
I think relativity and quantum both qualify too, even of most of the names developing quantum were young. I haven't heard of any rearguard opposition that had to die off. In fact, I'm not sure paradigm change through die-off has any validity in science...
(I used them in a Mage game, by a sceptical Technocrat. "Consensus reality and dueling paradigms" interacts poorly with discoveries that no one wanted. "Who ordered that?" as Rabi said of the muon.)
This is fascinating! Do you mind if I link to the Known World?
thanks for this. this is a very important book for a number of reasons. if you're interested, you might want to check out eth and pynoos on the subject of the reception in the 80s by the APA of lenor cagen terr's research on PTSD in children. "The discussant, typically a mild-mannered, polite intellectual, was enraged...." terr was by no means an independent researcher, and yet.... Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder in Children, Eth and Pynoos, eds., pp 3-7. APA Inc. Press, 1985. also, resilient children and children in concentration camps/genocide learn all the survival strategies (whether or not they survive) that adults do, without being taught them by adults. indeed, children in extremity become caregivers to the parents because they have suffered less loss of status markers and so on, which deliver a psychic shock to adults from which they can't recover. also, FYI: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1998/08/17/1998_08_17_054_TNY_LIBRY_000016171Edited at 2012-07-25 02:59 am (UTC)
If an adopted child can find the same sorts of friends regardless of the parents who adopted him -- which would be required for the parents to have no effect -- I would suspect that the friends were also a consequence and not a cause of personality.
If ghosts were discovered to be real, it would be evidence against the naturalistic worldview, but I don't think you have to abandon it. Indeed, our confidence in it should be so high as to be essentially unchanged by this new evidence. What I'd say instead is it's conclusive evidence that this is a simulation and the simulators are trolls. No supernaturalism actually required. (Neat, huh? Actually not sure how much I buy this, since everyone else would be screaming "naturalism is wrong OMG!")
I'm kind of surprised that you had any trust in social science to begin with.
From: (Anonymous) 2012-07-25 11:29 am (UTC)
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I'm surprised that fat tails don't screw up the results. I would expect behaviors with as much effect as malnutrition and music lessons to be common (for example, all abuse).
Are they part of the behaviors that turn out to have no influence? That seems strange. "Some kids are just terrified of everyone and suicidal regardless of what their parents do" is an extremely weird result, and "Correcting for genetics, abuse victims aren't unusually likely to develop mental illnesses or become abusers" is barely less surprising.
Are they very rare? They don't seem to be, but my sample may be very biased.
Are they just removed from the sample?
"In fact, until about 1900, this idea that parents were responsible for raising their children didn't really exist. "
I must say that if she actually said this, you should view with a dubious eye everything she says. The most cursory glance at pre-1900 evidence will turn up that idea over and over and over and over again. If she falsified that, what else is inaccurate?
"If the father died - in a car accident, of cancer, whatever - those children turn out exactly as well as children of double-parent homes!"
Like say, this. The children of the widowed do better than abandoned children but not as well as those where both parents live.
Children adopted as infants don't do as well as biologically born children in the two-living-parents structure, but they do do better than any other family situation.
From: (Anonymous) 2012-07-26 12:51 am (UTC)
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The relatively poor performance of the social sciences (relative to e.g. physics and engineering) has decreased my confidence in the effectiveness of science as a prescribed process, because progress in a field seems to depend more on the intelligence of its practitioners (and how persistently they pursue evidence) than on whether they try to follow proper scientific method.
Expect less angst from parents about "pay more attention/less attention/different kind of attention to the kid" and lots more angst from parents about "are we raising the kid in the right neighbourhood/school/peer group/country"
From: (Anonymous) 2012-08-01 02:20 am (UTC)
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Sometimes the iconoclasts are wrong. I remember William Aren's "The Man Eating Myth" arguing that cannibalism never took place save among pathological individuals (or individuals in pathological situations). It was an interesting premise, but all too well refuted by evidence ancient and modern ranging from obviously butchered human bones to eye witness cultural accounts.
Given the long literature dating back to Egyptian times, parents have long sought to mold their children's thoughts, actions and character. There are things that have long been taught in the form of patience, planning, empathy, bigotry, self control, self assertion, and so on. I do believe that certain aspects of ourselves are inherited genetically, but these are often channeled and redirected by parental intervention. You may be intrinsically shy, but you may also have been taught ways of approaching people and befriending them. You may be intrinsically generous, but taught not to share with certain people. You may be intrinsically cruel, but taught to think and act with empathy.
If you have any problem with this, consider that maybe half of all humans are female, and even the most biologically self assured and assertive girl has to fight her parents and the rest of society against the formation of her properly respectful, helpful, self effacing and so on womanly self. Studies of children misidentified by sex, raised in one manner, and then properly identified as they approach adulthood are most revealing. (It's easy to go off base in all sorts of social science reasoning if you forget that an awful lot of people are women.)
You won´t have to abandon the whole thing because is there indeed a "whole thing" as regards social sciences at this point?
I was under the impression that it has not reached the Newton stage just yet and that it yet exists in the form of scattered pieces of knowledge. Which means, you can let yourself be okay with the idea that if you boil the Red Dragon tincture and it turns into White Dragon, that does not necessarily imply that if you boil the Red Bull tincture it would inevitably turn into the While Bull. Maybe the Saturn was in the wrong house or something. When you don't know the general law and must make strange connections, some of them may lead to discovery of rather weird principles that are not necessarily right per se, and would just serve as a bridge for some other train of thought.
Physics goes back beyond Aristotle; organized psychology (and its clade) goes back to the late Nineteenth Century. It's hardly blameworthy that it has a long way to go toward catching up. Part of the point of "science" is that the collaborative enterprise is better at error correction than any practitioner can be alone. So when someone says, "Oh. I hadn't thought about that," it's the system working, not failing. I'm happy our answers and questions are getting better, and since I never considered any of the previous versions to be more than more-or-less tentative, there's not much O NOES.
in most hunter-gatherer tribes, most chimp bands, and most societies before the Industrial Revolution, parents pretty much just threw their children at the other children in the tribe after age three or so and didn't interact with them much besides feeding them and giving them a place to sleep
Judging by books I've read (Bill Patterson's "Tales from the Back Green" springs to mind) that was the standard parenting style in much of Britain at least as recently as the Fifties.
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